Daily GUIDE-ance:

Thursday, November 6, 2008

Atheism

A quick note on atheism before I move on to other things:

It's true of course that the existance or non-existance of a God, or gods can not be proved. That's a given.

The mistake alot of atheists make is to think that being an atheist is to be free of religon. They are not. The conviction that there is no god is a religious belief.

What do I mean by that? Just that it's an unprovable assumption, based on the small evidence that a person can see from limited perspective of a human life span on a teeeny speck of a planet in a dwarfish galaxy in a crazy huge universe. Just like a christian's assumption that Jesus is real, or a hindu's assumption that reincarnation happens.

An agnostic- one who "reserves judgement" - now that I can understand. But to think that you can somehow "know" that there is no God is ... rather closeminded. There might be one or two you know...

And either way, a person is not defined by their opinions and guess work as to how the universe is or is not structured. A person is defined by their actions.

Pure religon is the path a person walks. It's the way you chose to live and interact with everyone else. Cosmology has little to do with it.

28 comments:

lizS said...

kitsunexus, you are a dork.

Renae said...

Liz, step back and stop feeling so hard-done-by. You don't need to be rude just because you don't agree with someone. You will never win anyone that way. Someone else's rudeness is no excuse for your own. Neither is an "Irish temper." Yes, I do agree with the things you say, and I don't apologize for my beliefs, but you don't have to be rude and insulting about it.

So K, what were you trying to accomplish here, out of curiosity?

Renae said...

Ack I hate being a meanie! I love you Lizard Face. Sorry for the attack. I just think we need to remember who we are, and what we are trying to stand for.

lizS said...

this particular recent comment was a joke. mayhap you shouldn't be so sensitive renae, lol! the irish temper was an atempt at levity as well. *sigh* i'm so misunderstood. and i wasn't being rude earlier because he didn't agree with me either! how many debates on this very blog have we had where i was in no way rude or tactless? c'mon, i was rude to somebody who was rude to my loved ones. i'm so not sorry for being not so nice to somebody i don't even know for coming out of no where with the kind of rude remarks directed at my husband, you my dear sister in law, and my most precious religion! i wasn't trying to win him/her to my side in the least. the very opposite in fact, i was trying to get rid of them! i may have some lessons to learn in tact and sharp tonguedness, (which i fully admit, and i've come a long way believe it or not), but you also have some lessons to learn in when to not be a doormat. defacing yourself and groveling is not always the answer either.

lizS said...

love you bunches too renae-head!

Renae said...

Yes, I may let people walk over me in many situations. It's true, how-so-ever, I did stand up for my beliefs here. I can do it when I have to. I am amazingly meek and humble! (That was a joke!)

Let's all be friends now, can we?

lizS said...

renae, if we could combine our various good traits together, we really would be the perfect woman.

lizS said...

i agree you stood up to your beliefs too, but...i dunno. you also apologized all over everything for our opinions, or maybe just the way those opinions were expressed. for me, there was no need to apologize for that. don't read the blog if you're offended. john should be able to say whatever on here however he wants to say it. there's no rule saying this person HAS to read it or die after all! if he/she was offended, it was his fault, not ours. and really the only thing i took umbridge over was his tactics, which were not only repulsive, but directed at some things i hold most precious and dear above all others; family and religion! however, i'm not saying you are wrong in your approach. it is you, and only you can decide how you will react to things. i react differently. i'm not all wrong, and neither are you. didn't i just say earlier that i think you're way more perfect than me? yes, i do believe i said that, and i did mean it.

timpani76 said...

I actually think agnostics are worse than atheists. At least atheists have chosen a position, and a stance to argue from and start a debate from. It seems like agnostics have just given up, and don't want to try to find out any more. It's just a little too easy to be agnostic nowadays.

Eyepoke said...

No no no T-dog you have it all wrong!!!!!! ;p

I'd way sooner be an agnostic. It's way better to admit that you don't know than to pretend to a conviction just for the sake of not having to admit you don't know.

Bruce said...

liz and renae are both dorks. there, now move on. and john is right. better to be agnostic than athiest. the agnostic admits his lack of knowledge, the atheist proves his lack of knowedge by his arguement agenst mine.

timpani76 said...

I've known too many agnostics John (danielle and her friends, boyfriends, etc.). They say "oh, there may or may not be a god(s)" and then they GIVE UP. They don't research either way to defend their position, because they basically have none.

At least the atheists, in researching a defense for their positions, might change their minds.

Anonymous said...

Ok T-dog how about putting it this way:

"Nothing wrong with having questions, as long as you are looking for answers."

Collararyary thingy:
"Nothing wrong with having answers as long as you are still asking questions"

J

Eyepoke said...

Irish Temper:

Irish being a code word for Short.

lizS said...

you best watch it, husband of mine. you might find yourself missing some limbs one dark night.

lizS said...

or on the floor, having been mysteriously KICKED there!!

lizS said...

and who asked YOU bruce?!

Bruce said...

well excuse me!!! i thought this was an open discussion.

The Marinator said...

Timpani wins this argument. Hers was way better this time. (Also, it was an argument I hadn't thought of before that I found quite striking!) Sorry Johnaroo.

Eyepoke said...

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO mary you are soooooooooooooooooooo wrong! DIE!

Eyepoke said...

T-dog writes: I've known too many agnostics John (danielle and her friends, boyfriends, etc.). They say "oh, there may or may not be a god(s)" and then they GIVE UP. They don't research either way to defend their position, because they basically have none.

At least the atheists, in researching a defense for their positions, might change their minds.


The error here (ahem! :P) is the assumption that an atheist will do more research and study than an agnostic. This is wrong because the atheist mind is already made up- it is past the study and research stage.

The agnostic still allows questions... the agnostic by definition is still in the research phase.

(I myself am a lapsed agnostic BTW. I know all about it!)

Eyepoke said...

Just to be clear- the snobbery attitude just copped is to be understood in a tongue in cheek, good natured jesting fashion!

The Marinator said...

I see. Really I think you're just sore because you hate that people might think you weren't actually using your brain as much as you should have been during that time. We forgive you though, because you obviously came around...sorta...at least to believing in a knowable God...if only you'd chosen Protestantism. Oh well, there's still time for you to figure out that I'm right...

I was just thinking of this, and it's the reason I came back here tonight. (I didn't know you were right behind me!) I would just like to say that part of Liz's charm is that she's a bulldog when it comes to the people she loves. There is no one else in my life that would defend me so fiercely and completely than Liz. And I mean that. Not my folks, not my hubby, not anyone. So yeah, the claws may come out occasionally, but it's just because she loves so deeply. She wouldn't defend herself to the degree she defends others. But I'm glad she's in my corner.

Anonymous said...

M-dog...you silly!

J

lizS said...

okay. i'm not completey misunderstood. mary gets me. (you almost made me cry, you wicked girl!)

Bruce said...

john and i are right. tem and mary are wrong. gies role girls drool

Anonymous said...

Yeah!

What's the Bill and Ted/Socrates quote:

"The only true wisdom is in knowing that you know nothing"

J

Dana Cheryl said...

Sorry I've been absent of late. I've had internet problems...

OK I'm gonna have to agree with B & J. Atheism is an extremist view that does not allow for an alternate possibility. I cannot abide by that. It's far better to admit to not having the answers than to rule out the possiblity of having any answers.

That said I know both atheists and agnostics that have come to the knowledge of Christ. In my vast discussions with people during both my Baptist & LDS mission experiences I found that most folks that call themselves atheists are in fact agnostic. The genuine atheists that I've met will not allow for any other possiblity other than nothingness. In actuality all atheists must first become agnostic (some for only a very, very brief time) in order to come unto Christ. By definition an atheist can be nothing else...

There's my $0.02. I've sure missed ya'll. I'm happy to be back. :)