Daily GUIDE-ance:

Saturday, February 2, 2008

inane babbling

Well actually I do have quite a bit of extremely wise, deep, clear thoughts written down on that topic that must not be named ... but right now... oi... I am just not in the mood (Gurney Halleck enter's my mind now, shouting : "Not in the MOOD!? Mood's a thing for cattle and loveplay! Not Fighting!").

Whatever Gurney... Instead I think I will just babble mindlessly about some of the less heavy and deep things that have been on my mind. For instance:

1) If relativity is right and light's speed is unaffected my your frame of reference, why is there such a thing as blue and red shift?

2) I think it would be easier to build a case for polygamy using the Bible rather than against it.

3) Are Shem (from the Bible) Melchezidek (from the Bible) the same person?

4) well thats about it really... time to bail!

25 comments:

Anonymous said...

Oh- My polygamy statement upset you, I see. I honestly thought the reason Mormons were polygamists was because Joseph Smith said to be, and put it into his writings, I didn't know that they tried to use the Bible to reconcile their beliefs. This is the only thing that I can say to support my belief that God is not for polygamy, but only allowed it to happen: 1: In the beginning God created one man and one woman- not one man and three women. 2: While it's true that there are more women in the world than men, there are not so many more women, that every man can and should have more than one wife, if polygamy were something that God wanted everyone to practice (and the early Mormons were all encouraged to keep more than one wife), there would be astronomically larger numbers of women than men. 3: In most examples of polygamy in the Bible, men who were married to more than one woman, had serious issues with jealousy between wives (Rachel & Leah, Sarah and Hagar(okay, not a wife, but a consort, guess where Islam comes from, that religion of peace?), being badly influenced by their many wives (Solomon), and a mess of other bad stuff (David and Michal) came from multiple wives. 4: If God wanted people to practice polygamy, why would women be so disinclined to the idea? Why would He have put the desperate need to be loved and number one in their husband's eyes into women's hearts? Polygamy adds extra strain and heartache into marriage, which is already a very hard thing to be successful at in the first place.

I haven't studied up too much on the polygamy issue Biblically because for the most part it has been a non-issue for me, being an American citizen and all, so maybe it's a weak argument, but it's what I have on such short notice.

MC

Happy birthday party, Jonni! Sorry we can't be there. We miss you.

Anonymous said...

Im deeply and mortally offended. I dont know that we can still be friends.

(Obviously kidding.)

Drat I must go eat birthday cake.

Of course without polygamy I wouldnt be here as several of my grandcesters were. Actually my mom can just remember going to the funeral of her great grand ma when she was a kid- and she was a polygamist

gtg
J

Anonymous said...

dude, mary, get your facts strait. not all early mormons were encouraged to keep multiple wives, if fact i would say it was LESS THAN 10% of men practiced, and you had to have permission from the leaders of the church, namely the first presidency, which includes the prophet, and the quorum of the twelve apostles. if your gonna spout at mormons, make sure you do your homework.
love and hugs,
the almighty liz

Anonymous said...

and jonni's party went great, but we sure missed daniel! it'll be really good to see you guys in a couple of weeks!!
love,
the almighty liz

timpani76 said...

Polygamy was practiced at a time when there were many more righteous women in the church than men. Also, women lost their husbands when they were hounded from state to state by angry mobs.

Women had no right to own property, sign contracts, or even have a bank account unless it was in trust to a male relative or protector.

Would it have been a good idea to have a bunch of single women living in households with married couples?

Also, I think I'm an oddball. I always thought Erik would be a great husband to so many women who were single, or had (huhem) not so nice husbands. Erik would have been a perfect candidate for this because he could have single handedly raised the self worth of a whole herd of women.

I know, I've already got my "freak" card.

Anonymous said...

nah, timpani is not the only woman i've ever met who is totally okay with the whole polygamy thing. actually, not by a long shot. i can think of three more without even really digging.
signing off for the night,
the almight liz

Anonymous said...

My 2 bits-

The polygamy thing for me has always just gone on the stack of "wierd things I'm not losing sleep over". Other church related things on that stack include... Joshua's slaughter of the land of Canaan, The tribe of Benjamin's wo-ing stratgey at the end of Genesis, Abraham being told to kill Issac (i know it was a fake out but still)

J

Renae said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Renae said...

Why, oh why, WHY must you open another can of worms?!!! Sheesh! Your blog is becoming unbearably soap boxish! Let me help ... Bill Cosby is a "N" word! (kidding)

Renae said...

The ACLU ... Gun rights ... The war in Iraq ... Men should have the right to give birth ... It's bad to poke starving African children, with cystic fibrosis, Down's Syndrome, and only one remaining gangreenous limb, in the eye!

Anonymous said...

Hey I am not opening anything!!!

I was hoping people would run with the red shift thing.

J

PS: I do agree about the soap box thing. It was an accident! ...

PPS: I will, like it or not, make at least one more biggish post on the abortion thing-- I kinda have to... Oh well!

Anonymous said...

At least its not cute!

J

lid said...

you're a nutcase

Anonymous said...

John-I guess polygamy is not totally bad if we got you from it...but if Jeremy ever brought home another wife, well, I guess I would just hope that she made me look like a goddess, since that would make me feel so much better when he comes crawling back, and I get to tell him "never in a million years."

Timpani- That's why we all like you so much. ;)

MC

Anonymous said...

Alright, set me straight, here. It is my understanding, that the early Mormon teaching was that in order to reach the Celestial Kingdom, a man had to practice polygamy. Hence my charge that polygamy was encouraged for all men.

MC

Anonymous said...

No, not quite right. Marriage is a requirement, but not nessecarily plural.

J

Anonymous said...

mary where are you getting your information, because i know i've never told you that, and i'm sure i can remember correcting you on this point at least once. it would help if i knew your sources, so that i can correct any other errors at the same time. but yeah, polygamy was most definitly not encouraged in every man, you had to have enough financial means to support more than one wife, and you basically had to be called to it by the leadership, and really the main reason was as timpani said; a bunch of widowed women with children and no rights and no money. and like i said, less than 10% of men practiced. i have no idea what percentage of women practiced. but that's it in a nutshell. anything else is hearsay at best, lies at worst.
i might add that there actually were men who practiced w/out permission that were excommunicated. you abuse it, you lose it. anyway, signing off,
the almighty liz

Anonymous said...

For what its worth, the problems you describe were not nonexistant.

I can think of at 4 polygamist ancestors of mine whose personal histories I have read.

At least one of them- John Gibby was not what I would call a decent human being, at least not according to the children of his second wife.

According to my gg-grandma- his 2nd wife- he made it very clear which of his families was his favorite in life- going so far as to leave nothing in his will to the second family.

My gg grandma's history is very sad indeed to read- she was essentially a Cinderella without a prince. Her boys refused to contribute to buying a headstone to thier father, when he died cause they thought he was a miserable character.

more later-
j

Anonymous said...

More on GGGma D. Gibby:

The thing that really janks me is that basically starting the generation after she died, anytime anyone brings up this history in the family, someone will say: “yeah, but that is just one person’s point of view” and they start in trying to imagine that family as a happy one. This annoys me to no end because there is just no evidence for any such conclusion. People can get so intellectually dishonest when they start talking religion and it makes me want to pound them, a little.

J

timpani76 said...

I think Mary might be confusing the early Mormon church with the current polygamists who live out in Colorado City. They do say that you have to follow the rules (polygamy) or get kicked out.

There was also another community that sprung up about the same time as the LDS church called the Oneida Community where everyone was married to everyone else. They also had some other weird stuff (well, weird-er) that I will not get into.

John--I think that in the case of people who lived over a hundred years ago that there are many things that could be left to interpretation.

Anonymous said...

I stand more informed than I was 2 days ago.

MC

Anonymous said...

T-

In general, true, 100 years is a long filter. But in gg-gma gibby's case, she wrote her own personal life history before she died and the reading that is where I get the vast majority of stuff that I know of her. She is pretty explict regarding the nature of her husband's relationship with her family.

J

Anonymous said...

UUUUURGH!

Mccain is winning... anybody know any good third parties?

J

Anonymous said...

Hey everyone, I just finally got on here to check things out--whew! What interesting discussions! I'm not sure I should get involved yet with all that, I just have a random question for john--you mentioned a couple of weeks ago you were reading the golden compass--how did that turn out? Is it as anti-God as everyone says? Did you read all 3 in the series or just the first?

VIRGINIA

PS. Liz--I think the overall percentage of people practicing polygamy was like 2-3% if you include women? I had thought i was way less than even 10%, but I could be wrong. . .

lizS said...

the number i remember from institute classes was less than ten, but i just can't be more specific because i don't remember. good to have ya sis!