Daily GUIDE-ance:

Thursday, January 17, 2008

More

Well!

That was certainly fun! And I thought nobody would want to talk politics. We even drew Big E out. >:) (and yeah E- I thought it was cool too.)

I am glad that we got several diverse viewpoints- It would have been much less fun if we all just slapped each other's backs and agreed ad nauseum. It's how you get smarter- by having your assumptions challenged. My thanks to everyone who participated in last post's hailstorm discussion. Fun, thought provoking, informative etc.

And no one had to get nailed to anything. (Sorry Timpani I couldn't resist)

So I had one more discussion point that I wanted to toss onto the stack of that discussion(as a fast effect) but I figured since I am the boss, I would instead put it in a new post.

Religion and Poltics- Romney, Huckabee and Obama.
I think that it is a good idea to know about a canidate's religon. I think it does have a bearing on the type of president the canidate will be. If a canidate's religon has no bearing on what type of president they would make, that also says something about the canidate.

Long and short:
Romney's attitude towards his faith seems to make him a better man and a better potential president.

Huckabee's faith I am not so sure about- most comitted non-mormon christains that I have known have been truly class acts... but I am not sure how geniune Huckabee's personal faith is. "When was the last time that Huckabee's faith was not connected to his profit motive?" is the question I find myself asking.

Obama's church appears to be built largely on racist principles- and when racism mingles with religon, you get one ugly, scary combination.

No more at present.

27 comments:

timpani76 said...

I'm not saying I will vote for Barack (Hussein) Obama, but he does make good points about uniting America with regards to religion.

Some of my favorite excerpts from Obama's speech on religion in politics delivered in 2006:

(on shedding the liberal bias against faith)

"But what I am suggesting is this - secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square. Frederick Douglas, Abraham Lincoln, Williams Jennings Bryant, Dorothy Day, Martin Luther King - indeed, the majority of great reformers in American history - were not only motivated by faith, but repeatedly used religious language to argue for their cause."


(on the separation of church and state)

"But a sense of proportion should also guide those who police the boundaries between church and state. Not every mention of God in public is a breach to the wall of separation - context matters. It is doubtful that children reciting the Pledge of Allegiance feel oppressed or brainwashed as a consequence of muttering the phrase "under God." I didn't."

(after discussing his views with a doctor who e-mailed him)

"And that night, before I went to bed, I said a prayer of my own - a prayer that I might extend the same presumption of good faith to others that the doctor had extended to others... A hope that we can live with one another in a way that reconciles the beliefs of each with the good of all.

It's a prayer worth praying, and a conversation worth having in this country in the months and years to come."

timpani76 said...

I would definitely prefer Romney, though. With the way the media devils are attacking him, he must be the best one for the job!

Big E. said...

I would prefer a religious candidate, but I think that religion for a political candidate is only relevant if it relates to character.

Do or die, Romney is tied to religion. It was brought up, he took it and ran with it. I have not heard anyone slight his character for his religion, but I have heard people that will vote against just because of his religion regardless of his character. That's ignorant.

For example, John Kerry basically was trying to play to the religious folks who might vote for him and got burned. He said that he was religious and the views he espoused were currently in direct contradiction to his church's official teaching. That hurt him.

I voted for Bushie twice because he talked the talk and walked the walk. He even prayed with Vladimir Putin. I feel like he is religious and character backed it up.

I think that Hillary Clinton plays it smart in that she says religion is personal and drops it. That way we don't have to compare what her church believe vs. what she does. We can just look at the issues and contrast them to our own. (I would have a lot more respect for her feminist beliefs, for instance, if she had kicked Bill out. He is the opposite of what she espouses.)

Religion is not really an issue for me with Obama. The Islamic school thing is not a factor. He has said he is a Christian. It is not even super relevant to me that the church he goes to might espouse some racist views. He is not advocating it. He acts like an okay guy, I just completely disagree with him on most of his policies. I also think it is hubris for him to be running for the Presidency after barely being a US Senator. It "cuts no ice with me" when someone has barely filled one political position and is after another.

The church that Thompson is a member of actually brought up stuff against him. He did not make it an issue. He talks like a person of character and he stands up for some important issues. That's enough for me.

On another a forum I post on, some people keep making low level Mormon slurs against Romney as part of their reasoning for not voting for him. I wanted to post that I would vote for a person who thought God was a peanut if it made them a person of character. (Peanut butter is abomination unto my sight. Eat thee none of it. :) )

Bruce said...

My oppinion as it pertains to my political candidate:

(FOR THE MOST PART) It is not important to me what religion somebody is from. It is only important to me that they have religion in their life. It's not necessarily a deal breaker if they don't, but it deffinatly says something for a person if they have faith in something beyond themself.

I agree with Erik, Hillary has been very wise to not make religion an issue for herself. But I disagree about Obama because he is an active member of a racist church, yet he hasn't spoken out against their racist veiws. Therefore, he might as well claim them as his own.

I agree with Timpani about the media dogs attacking Romney so much, so he must be doing something right.

I dont' know much about Thompson's religion.

I feel Huckabee has thrown in with the "Mormons are a cult" crowd.

Anonymous said...

Seriously, really, how did I get to be the lucky recipient of the insult of the day emails? I admit I haven't been a very loyal reader of your blog. I come and go to my friends' blogs when it suits me, but I don't deserve this kind of treatment! Did you just have me up there to see how long it would take me to notice or say something? To see if I was really reading your blog? Well I WASN'T!!! I WASN'T reading your blog! So there! How does that make you feel?! I hope you cry! I know you'll put on a brave face and act like you don't care, but you do, otherwise you wouldn't have put a test on the very top of your blog to see if I was reading it! You care about me! Admit it! I dare say you LOOOOOOOVE me! Well, I'll try to be the bigger person and see this for what it really is: a declaration of your true feelings for me. I'm flattered, but I'm best friends with your wife, and I value her friendship more than just a quick fling that would never work out, 'cuz then I'd feel like a bad friend, and a bad wife, and my guilt would eat me alive. So as you can see, you're certainly a fine specimen of a man, but I couldn't betray my loved ones like that.

MC

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah, as for my political views: As a non-Mormon, you may be shocked to find that I was actually leaning more towards Romney, and as a Baptist (and Daughter-in-law to a Baptist minister), away from Huckabee who is a social lib. I would rather vote for someone who was in a different religion than me if he were truly living a moral life in line with his belief system, than someone who claims to be a Protestant but won't take a hard line on things like homosexuality. (Though, I don't think I could vote for a Muslim, because they believe it's ok to lie to "infidels" if it advances their cause, and would therefore never fully trust a Muslim candidate.) I was not aware, however of Romney's views on socialized medicine. That scares the snot outta me. I'll have to rethink my candidates, I was also under the mistaken impression that Thompson was a pro-abort, which when I was told that, took him off my list, even though I really liked him. I'll have to look back into him.

MC

timpani76 said...

Mary! You absolutely cracked me up! I could not stop laughing through your whole "John loves me" comment/rant. So hilarious! I also seriously thought John had okayed the whole insult of the day thing with you. That also was hilarious.

Anonymous said...

::laughs:: Knowing John, do you really think he would get his victim's permission for something like that? :)

MC

lizS said...

yay! mary weighed in! a non-mormon!! i totally agree with i think it was erik that the religion isn't really the issue, it's how hypocritical or not the person is about their religion. erik also brought up a good point in that obama is being a little too ambitious? how can he run a country when he's barely served one term as senator? good points! i've been trying to figure out how to articulate those points for a couple of days! thanks erik! i also agree with mary in that i'm not sure i would trust someone who was at one point in time a muslim (and by all reports an extreme muslim) even though he now professes to be a christian, unless i knew him/her personally, because of the points raised by mary. so, i guess i have nothing new to say! hehe. i was just so excited that some else found a way to say what i wanted to say! and i haven't really chosed a candidate yet, i think it's still to early. i'm reserving judgment until we get a little closer to election time. good discussion all!!

Anonymous said...

A thought: My dad pointed this out to me not too long ago, and it was something I hadn't thought about before: Where do our rights come from? If they come from God, then our rights are our rights, and will always be our rights, because God's laws don't change. If our rights come from men, then they can be given and taken away at the whim of whatever man is in power. A man (or woman) who believes in God and God's laws, will help protect our God-given rights, but a man who doesn't have belief in God will do whatever seems right to him at the moment. That's how we get people like Hitler, who think they are doing the world a favor by exterminating undesirables, and seeking out "supermen" to advance humanity.

MC

timpani76 said...

Liz,

Barack Obama went to a Muslim school in Indonesia as a boy, I don't think he was ever a muslim. Indonesia has more muslims than any other country in the world. If Obama was living there, a muslim school was probably his only choice.

lizS said...

yeah, but how do you know? if muslims hold that lying to an "infindel" is fine, then why believe him? has he actually said anything on this topic? "yes i went to a muslim school, yes my step-father was muslim, but i never was"? anything like that? but again, i'm not sure i would believe him even if he did say it, because i know just enough to be dangerous about the muslim faith. (which means not much, but what i do know i don't like) and again, i'm gonna steal from erik here, he talks the christian talk, but when it comes down to actions, he's a bit contradictory. he goes to a publically racial church, but claims he is not racist. something there just doesn't add up to me. there are too many inconsistancies for me to trust the guy.

Anonymous said...

Well drat it all Mary. Let me know if your feelings toward my wife ever change though.

Maybe we could just kill our spouses?

J

timpani76 said...

This snopes article basically says that Obama was never a muslim. The school he went to in Indonesia was a public school. He also went to a Catholic School for two years while he was in Indonesia. His stepfather and mother were not a muslims either. His mother does seem anti-religion though. She seems like an atheist or agnostic.

He's been a member of the same church (The Church of Christ) Since he was 25 years old.


http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

Anonymous said...

As to Romney's ideas about health care, ( I feel a bit responsible for this one, since I wa sthe one who brought it up in the first place and people keep saying things to me about it like: "what? I never heard that before) I have to say that I can't give a direct source right now as to where I got that bit of info.

I would like to get more info on exactly what the real deal is there. Government sponsored health care is clearly a retarded idea, and Romney has a solid business backround, it would seem that he would easily understand the basic economic principles at work there. But there are somethings that a smart executive could do with an eye to making health care more acessable such as reducing the number frivelous lawsuits against doctors, etc. more reasearch on Romney and this issue!

J

Anonymous said...

If Obama was never a Muslim, then howcome he took his oath of office on the Koran?

MC

Anonymous said...

John- I would consider it, but now there would be witnesses and written proof of our little conspiracy. Besides I would miss Liz.

Oh yeah - and Jeremy. ;)

MC

lizS said...

i love mary!

Anonymous said...

Whats say we stage our OWN deaths and run off together?

I'd miss my kids though...

Well until a better plan surfaces I guess we might as well, you know, do the whole obey the 10 commandments thing... It couldn't hurt, and would at least pass the time.

J

bruce said...

hea, it was my comment that said (for the most part)the spicific religion of the cantidate did not matter. its ok liz you can agree with me every once in a while.obama did not take his oath on the corran, that was some one else. but muslim or not he is a horrible cantidate. and its the united church of christ he is in. i was a convert from the church of christ. not a all black church. guess how i figured that out. and hea mary, your not best friends with my wife. or erik for that matter. heheheheheheheheheheheheh
and my final 2 are romny and thompson. i would love thoes 2 to be that ticket, not shur who i want on top just yet.

timpani76 said...

Things I don't like Obama:

His Senate record: He voted with fellow Democrats 96% of the time. I think his voting record proves he would have a hard time consolidating Republican and Democratic views and getting the most from both parties.

His age and inexperience: He's only 45 years old and has not been in "big time" politics for very long. He's been in small time politics and worked in his community for 20 years, but these things do not cut as much water with me.

His attack ads: He has already criticized Hillary with ads saying she does not respect certain minorities (Hispanic workers in Nevada). He's willing to use race as a platform for attack, and that does not seem like a good precedent for me as to what he would do with his presidency.

Plus: He's pro-abortion and he's a Democrat.

(Mitt Romney is supposed to win in Nevada!)

lizS said...

mitt romney DID win in nevada!!
everyone's blaming the mormons of course.

timpani76 said...

Cursed filthy maggoty mormons!

Anonymous said...

No one will probably read this now but: 1) John - Shucks, I guess you're right. 2) Bruce- Are you offering me something? 3) That wasn't Obama with the Koran? Oh- still wouldn't vote for him. I think he'd be more disastrous than Hillary-which is saying something. 4) Oh I heard over the weekend an interview with Romney, and he said that his health plan was to allow people to buy their own private insurance, not have govt. health care. People can already buy their own insurance...I wonder if the idea is to make it so that the "uninsurable" can buy insurance? I haven't heard the whole plan, he just said what I wrote.

MC

Anonymous said...

I read it
j

Anonymous said...

I'm sure glad.

M

Anonymous said...

me 2